These are edited copies of the mail that we get.

I just hope that if any Pub Co Boss or Employee reads these terrible stories, they feel some degree of remorse. I just wish that they were not true, but they are and they won’t stop coming in.

I am currently struggling with a Pub Co. The latest letters from them threaten to take back our three pubs we face mounting costs and accusations of buying out. My situation is being re-played the land over, I am paying £100 a week rent and they want £1000. I refuse on the basis that the business is non-viable, no discounts (aside from one old lease at £40 a brewer’s barrel). I am paying this rental amount as I cannot afford their full rent. What I  want is to pay a fair rent and to be given discounts as a part of our Partnership agreement.

We have asked for help over the last 18 months. We are still awaiting capex and safety works to be done at two of the premises, the original works are now over two years old and have lease works which are even older. We received a BRI (Business Recovery Incentive) at one pub.  This was changed into a deed of variation, based on the fact that the rent had been set to high since the refit. We asked for the rent to be back dated to day-one and were told that this could not be done as they had overspent on the capex (although the rent was set at the end of these works).

Any BRI deals offered did have tie-ins contrary to the Pub Co’s statement to the BEC, namely WSM (wines, spirits and minerals) and or f&f (fixtures and fittings.) They allowed a short term discount of £100 a BB (Brewer’s Barrel) to carry on which they then called in. Due to an oversight on their part we were hit with a bill of £12k which we cannot afford.

We have asked for full breakdowns on how the rent is assessed so that we can challenge it. This information has not been made available although we have asked for it repeatedly over the last year or more.

I do have a rental breakdown (given over to confuse us rather than help, but which has proved very helpful.) This was provided by my Regional Manager, for another lease, which we challenged only to have their chief surveyor turn up and give a new, completely different, assessment but still arrive at the same rental figure! We challenged his figures and were not allowed to speak to him again. Then the Director came down to tell us to pay or go to arbitration. After we displayed some of the errors carried out by their surveyor the Director left with the promise to look into it. He came back with a lower rental figure, which was still way off the mark, and refused to show us any calculations. We were told arbitration was the only route. He completely missed out the fact that an external valuer should have been called in, as per their Codes of Practice.

Their area manager approached us before Christmas to say that he could offer us temporary discounts at £50 per BB at all sites and he would put the rents to zero so long as we agreed to be out by the 2nd week in January (he tried to tie us in for WSM as well but we referred him to the Pub Co’s comments at the BEC and he withdrew this part). We said we would be happy to take up his offer on the discounts, as we had been asking for this level of help for a year, but not on the basis of surrender as we wanted to discuss our situation with their CEO. The deals were put in place and then revoked at the end of a short period, with us having to pay back the discounts before orders would be accepted. Rents for January (previously removed) were added back onto our debt.  They are not willing to freeze rents during negotiations even though they have already proved they can.

We then took our complaints to the CEO, he said if you pay your bills then I will talk to you. He is fully informed of the practices used by his company and directly liable as he cannot deny being told. We could not pay these debts, we gave an explanation as to why this was so and what we were doing to further the business. We have now received mail saying that he will not talk to us any further and the case(s) will be handled by their solicitors.

We have been on cash with order for over a year now and yet weekly our beer deliveries are being  delayed due to problems within credit control and no fault of our own. This kind of petty harassment is hugely damaging to a business.

There are so many elements to this case that I could write forever. I have been given no choice but to publish this information to try and help others.  I am seeking legal advice on the best way forward. Needless to say the evidence has been submitted to the Inquiry. The information on your site is accurate, and I thank you for posting it, but I don’t know the best way to get the PubCo’s to implement change.

I speak to both Fairpint and David Morgan who have offered advice. I will carry on the fight but I wanted you to know that having sites like yours allows people to read about the truth.

I felt I had to write in. Reading your pages was like reading my life history. Many of the dreadful actions of Pub Cos you relate I too have experienced. I have owned a freehouse so the trade was not new to me but I was a babe in arms when dealing with the leasehold negotiators for the Pub Co.

I have a 15 year lease, 8 years left on an 8 roomed inn with a beer and cider only tie.

I have known the place for over twenty years and for half of this it was was apparently successful as a restaurant and freehouse. A Pub Co then purchased it, spent nothing and ran it into the ground, at which point the present Pub Co bought it and 30 other properties. They ran it as a managed house for a year or so without success and put the lease up for sale with the promise of a major refurb.

I took on the new lease in 2002. The refurb was done and used to justify the higher rent. We upped the standard to get 4 AA stars and an AA food Rosette. We have struggled from time to time but the good balanced out the bad until Sept 2008 when there was a major dip in business following a really poor summer and I alerted the BDM to the problem; this time there was no good to see us through the bad. We arranged a meeting and went through the figures and forward bookings. His response was that for the Pub Co to help us we must accept their “value” business model; reduce our room prices to £50 to compete with Premier Inns and reduce our food prices substantially to get more people in. I was very doubtful but for the sake of their unspecified help I agreed. One week later I found out what “help” meant. I was informed that I was on stop for beer orders. This subsequently changed to cash before delivery plus rent weekly plus arrears (one months rent at that time). Terms that we’re impossible to meet. October was again poor, November worse and December the lowest room bookings we have had in 7 years. And throughout this and meetings with my accountant and solicitor the brewery has not moved one scintilla other than to issue a statutory demand and to fine me for buying out. The choice is pretty stark; pay up or get out and become bankrupt. Fortunately I can raise the funds required but I really want some movement from the Pub Co on the rent to justify more capital being put in.

At this point you may well think me mad. I am considering another leasehold property with a smaller Pub Company, free of tie. It is a closed property due to insolvency and I would hope to secure sensible terms. The business is similar to my present one, rooms being the core component, in a market that is better than the present area.

I had a meeting with the new Pub Co and treated the meeting as a two way interview and I found them quite legalistic and defensive in their responses, unlike any BDM I have met but just as unforthcoming about the realities off the business

So anything you say to help,in either scenario, would be much appreciated.

My response, just be damn careful get everything in writing and trust no-one, don’t be bamboozled into taking a lease, until everything is signed sealed and correct. A vacant property is a very much an at risk property for a Landlord, they will want you in as soon as possible, make sure you have a good survey and agree the dilapidations before you sign the lease, photograph every fault in the building, date the pictures and send them to the company by registered post, if they are trying to gloss over the state of the building.

Nick,

Thanks for that, I got stuck behind the bar again last night. I did however fish the leaflet out and I am calling them today. It’s all gone horribly wrong here (after a year of profitable trading). My dad who I need for some kind of help in forming an action plan has stuck his head in the sand but the pub is losing about 2k a week and I am going crazy with worry. The loan for the assigned lease is secured against my parents house (120k) and the guilt I feel for bringing the family to this, is immense. We are on the Pub Co’s recovery scheme with 100 off 36gall but is drop in the ocean compared to the bills that are racking up…..Weekends are still busy but whereas we were taking 1 to 2 k on weekdays we are now doing 500 quid if we are lucky. It all started in October and really suddenly! I blame myself for not reacting but what could I have done in such a huge downturn. I’m at a loss as to what to do now as my dad who has been in business (not pubs) all his life just says hang in here, but I know its too late already. The Pub Co can’t do anything as I’m on the discount already, bailiffs have walking possession of f&f due to rates arrears and I’ve not paid food suppliers for 3 months. I just want to walk but my dad just wont surrender the 120k investment and I dont blame him! If it wasnt for the greed of the Pub Co and we were paying a sensible tied price for our beer we certainly wouldnt be in this mess!

Sorry to put this on you as you don’t even know me but I needed to get it off me chest. I will be at the protest on Monday. I really don’t know why the whole tied system does not wake up and revolt by just not buying from the pubcos.

I feel its the only way.

Hello.

Thanks for your message.  Although myself and my girlfriend have lost our pub, our home and our business (along with a small fortune) I feel it could have been a lot worse, and it is for a lot of people out there.

I am 24 and my girlfriend is 23.  We got into the pub trade 2 years ago after completing uni.  Although young, we managed to get the locals on our side and they have been brilliant all through this.  Even though they have lost their local and the meeting place for the village they have remained supportive as they see what pressures we were under from the brewery (enterprise).

In the end both myself and Liz had another full time job and we were working about 70 hours each week.  After 6 months we got used to working all those hours, and I started to feel lazy when I had an ‘easy’ week and only did 60.  From September until December the pub started to fare so badly we had to put our wages from our other job into the pub to keep it going.

When we asked our Pub Co for help they gave us their ‘business recovery plan’.  This consisted of a £40 discount on a 22g barrel.  The only problem is they insisted on extending our partial tie to a full tie during this period.  So they gave with one hand and took with another.  Before this came into effect we went out and stocked up on everything we could, as we knew they would sting us on spirits, wines and minerals.  The plan was supposed to last 12 weeks.  They stopped it after 5 without telling us, it was only when I checked the invoices that I found out that it had stopped.  They claimed that it was taken off us because we didnt buy something from every category each week.  They knew we would never do this, and we couldnt just buy things for the sake of it.

The sad thing is that it was working, with this discount our gp increased to a level which plugged the gap.

In early december I had a meeting with my area manager and when I said we will need help or we will go under, she said we had better arrange to give the keys back.

So we planned to hand back the keys on the 5th January, after having a good send off.  On New Years eve, shortly after my £1600 beer order had gone out of my bank by direct debit I cancelled the direct debit as didnt want anything else going (rent for the next month).  Sadly the bank returned my money.  Within 3 hours they had sent a bailiff round.  They had not tried to contact me in any way.  I paid him the beer money (minus his costs, as I thought it unreasonable that enterprise did this without even asking me for the money).  4 days later, I received a letter saying that I had an unpaid bill and would I kindly put it into their bank.  So they sent the debt collector out before even formally notifying me.

After this we both got tired of fighting.  The keys went back, I am still waiting for the final bill.  Even though I paid all the rent and all the beer we owed them (we can out even in that respect), I still fear they wll come after us.  The delap report stated we needed £50,000 worth of work doing (in under 2 years).  They in all likelyhood will keep our £3500 deposit and our £5,500 f+f.  They claim to break the contract early they would have 3 months rent from us.  So now we are just waiting for the day when they ask us for the best part of £50,000.

Anyway, they treated us harshly from what I can see.  However they have been a lot worse to others.  Although it will take us 6 years at £800 per month to pay back all the money we have lost in buying the lease in the first place, we are young enough to get over it.  I really feel sorry for the older generation, who have lost everything including their youth.  My parents have kindly put a roof over our heads.  We are lucky to have very very stable and reasonably well paid jobs.  Most of all we have our health and are still together!

We have moved the dominoes and pool team to a local club, so still see the locals.  But it is not the same.  It is very hard to adjust to normal life again.  However in the coming months it will be good to have a life, although we dont have much money, we will have time to do anything we want!!

I am glad to see the share price plummet today.  Hopefully things can change and those who are holding on will be saved.  The pubco’s and labour have a lot to answer for.

Anyway, I dont know what you need this for etc, but thats for listening!! What is your situation? I hope you fare better than I did.  Finding the MA forum helped keep me going for the last 3 months.  Without it I wouldnt have made it, so I owe a lot of strangers an awful lot.  Something I doubt I would ever be able to repay, but you should let everyone know that the regular posters make all the difference in the world.  In a sea full of sharks, it was nice to find a small boat to cling to for a while.

Thanks,

Mike